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Transcription

00:00.00
James
Hey everybody thanks for listening to the James from Montana podcast a new podcast in which I interview experts in the tech industry with the goal of slowly uploading the collective consciousness of tech into the cloud for more information on today's guest topic or how to be a guest yourself. Visit jamesfrommontana.com/podcast I have with me today Jenni Graff,  founding executive director of early stage Montana with experience as a founder of a recruiting firm and work in economic development bundled with BA and MBA degrees from the University of Montana, Jenni is a moving force and encouraging business growth and attracting technology companies to Montana she is also the first fellow Montana and hiker to join me on this podcast. So I'm more than excited to welcome her. How are you, Jenni?

00:55.95
Jenni
I'm doing Well it is a lovely day as you know in Montana,

00:57.79
James
Absolutely -so I've been following some of your work with early stage Montana I wanted to dive in to start with, I know a little bit about it, but for the listeners could you give us a rundown of what early stage Montana does?

01:16.80
Jenni
Yeah, absolutely so we are a nonprofit 5013c organization and our mission is to grow the montana tech ecosystem and we do that largely by providing training mentorship. And connections to early stage founders across the state of Montana.

01:41.29
James
I love it. So you are a founding executive director So in a way like a meta startup founder for startup founders, right?

01:54.39
Jenni
Ah, yeah I like that I mean in some ways. Yeah, so we are a nascent organization and so I am going through some of the the pains that startups. I encounter every single day you know and there's ah, there's a little bit of product Market Fit I'm trying to figure out. You know we do a lot of programming So. There's also you know figuring out like how to articulate communicate my product or build something that's valuable to the clientele that I serve which is. Startups. So Yeah I Guess ah in some ways It is very meta. Yeah.

02:33.30
James
So ah, how did you get started with early stage Montana like why did you start it? Ah how did it come about.

02:46.69
Jenni
Well, I can't take any of the credit. The idea kind of came about when one of the angel investor syndicate groups in the state kind of identified that you know they're called the frontier angels. They you know have a mandate to invest in Montana -based companies and really want to grow and support Montana -based companies and they were just finding that they're just you know in order to. Speak the language of an investor in order to appeal to angel investors. There's just a little bit of a knowledge gap and the startups that they were encountering regularly just weren't quite there but they had great ideas and so it was like you know all we really need to do is you know, find these startups. Give them some coaching connect them to people that have done it and you know will be off to the races. It'll just kind of uplevel the entire ecosystem and so you know hence early stage montana was born largely through the. The work and the philanthropy of that organization. And then you know as things got started. We you know got a little bit more traction we were able to partner with msu. We started doing some you know.

04:13.34
Jenni
We've received a formal eda grant to kind of specifically work with some of the tech transfer companies that were coming from msu give them some coaching and you know now. Fast forward. 5 years I've been working as the founding executive director of early stage Monty and I'm the only full-time paid staff here. But I do have a pretty incredible board that allows us to punch a but above our weight for lack of a better term, and ah grow and support startups across the state.

04:50.76
James
I love it you so you speak a little bit to that gap between I guess like launching a startup getting traction as a startup getting funding etc I think I've experienced the same gap I've I've been a startup founder of. I've sold a company. I'm actually starting another startup, so it does bring to mind - you have all this experience now 5 years in what companies have you seen come through and through early stage Montana?

05:30.43
Jenni
So we have ah a um alumni group of about 40 companies that have gone through our program and they are you know in everything from you know. Raising a series a or even going through an exit or kind of considering an exit ah to they've you know, went through a program and wowed down their operations and that's pretty typical. You know it's like there's a reason why. You know venture capital and angel investors are looking for 10 x returns is that they see you know pretty high failure rates. Um I think nationally or actually even internationally, um. Almost all accelerators that see about a 30% wind down rate of startups after they go through our programs or through an accelerator program and um I'm sure our numbers are no different but not to dwell on the ones that have wound their operations down. Should probably be talking about some of the success stories. Um that I admit were you know obvious we're proud of them all so I could want to make that clear. You know, just because like you know, winding down a company. That's a really tough decision but you know we feel like that frees you up to.

06:50.96
Jenni
Go on to bigger better and bolder things that are going to work so you know that education that you get in going through the process of ah you know the startup journey is valuable no matter what? so anyway with all that being said, um. Some of the companies that you may recognize or who are you know, getting some traction right now were in our earliest cohorts which makes sense. You know it just takes a little while to build a name for yourselves. But um, one of our early winners of the showcase was Vision Aerial they are a drone manufacturing company here in Bozeman Montana um, last I heard they had like 30 job offers in I want to say like a month. Don't quote me on these numbers but they were. Scaling up operations really significantly. They were you know they've built out a warehouse I want to say they have about 80 employees now maybe 120 just because things are changing very quickly. But at the end of the day they went through and um, their founder I think it was just their founder was the only full-time employee I think they have like 1 other part-time employee and so that's just in 5 years that they've done some really impressive work another yeah yeah.

08:16.33
James
That's amazing.

08:19.57
Jenni
Yeah we're proud of them. You know, um, another company at the winter hour program early on and actually shared I think the the initial first place prize was um, superior traffic services. They are a um, automated like. Traffic control system they're based in Missoula um, they have pretty incredible satellite technology that automates construction sites so traffic signals and construction sites. So generally you know anywhere you go in Montana if you're. Waiting at a stoplight. It is probably their technology that is keeping that site safe and they went through our program again five years ago now and they were only operating in Montana they knew that they had. Good technology and they had like 80% of the market share here but they had not yet broken beyond montana's borders. They went through our program they are now operating I believe in all fifty states as well as Mexico in Canada. They have acquired more companies I think their workforce is 3 times the size as what it was and so they're you know another shining light of you know, just kind of what what can happen.

09:45.26
Jenni
When you know you you get to find some you know strategic advisors who can point you in the right direction open some doors for you and and what happens when you um. You know, just get the opportunity to really think you know take a step back and really think strategically and intentionally about where you want to go with the business.

10:02.60
James
You know I love that you're filling the gap sort of these companies that want to experience growth have the ability to experience growth and just can't get there without that gap being filled so and speaking into the failure quote I think it's very important. Once in your life or maybe a bazillion times in your life to go through failure at least 1 time winding down a startup ah to really understand things to avoid how to navigate startups.

10:25.70
Jenni
Yeah, absolutely.

10:32.78
Jenni
Yeah, yeah, yeah I mean that you know I think we learn from pain and from experience right? and that you know as much as they can be. You know, pretty pretty painful.

10:58.33
James
Yeah, for sure. So ah, want to dial into Montana just a little bit my perspective on Montana roundabout like ten years ago technology I would say we were at the bottom. The list and my experience now is that we're slowly creeping up the list. We have a roster of really impressive companies that are based out of Montana ah, there are lots of remote workers in Montana now as well. I think times have changed I really want to understand. Why you think that is though. So.

11:37.68
Jenni
Yeah, yeah, um, gosh I mean you know, just anecdotally I could give you all kinds of like facts and figures coming from. You know the yeah department of Labor and industry and everything else. But what I'll tell you um, just ah. By way of storytelling is that yeah I mean I I we've all seen it. You know we if we kind of grew up through this transition and um I always talk about like when I graduated from college like you know 4-year degree and if you wanted to stay in Montana I you know you m alum here. Wanted to stay in Monta like with a liberal arts degree your options were you know in highest income earning potential jobs were like bartending and trail crew and so like that's what everybody went into and you know you drive down like.

12:33.20
Jenni
Front street in Missoula at five o'clock on a Friday and you know there it's bustling with um with young recent college graduates that are working you know for a number of the you know, different success stories that you alluded to and. So you know things have absolutely changed here. Um, and I think at this point in time we we have the momentum. We have the critical mass to demonstrate that this isn't just you know some sort of like 1 off it wasn't you know, just. Submittable that is you know was fortunate enough to go through y combinator and raise some french were capital. It wasn't a fluke. You know we're now seventeenth I want to say or maybe middle of the pack in the yeah. In the country in terms of venture capital funding for startups and you know to to your quote earlier. We used to be um, ah, fifty first in the nation after Puerto Rico in terms of the amount of venture capital that flowed through this state. So. We are seeing a turning of the tides and um, you know I am thrilled to to see it happening and to see that you know Montana -based founders are are embracing this idea of creating a growth company from here you know there, we've always been entrepreneurial and we've always had an attitude of self-reliance here in the state and you know only kind of recently is there. Getting to be this kind of common mentality around like building a company kind of intentionally around like staying and growing in Montana and creating tech jobs here.

14:30.72
James
You see I would have said that it was the trails, the superior trails.

14:35.44
Jenni
Ah, and it's I thought you were going to say the trails are busier and that's like all the evidence we need that like there is a growing tech economy here. It's true too.

14:47.87
James
Ah, as far as a specific industry in Montana I think at some point I would have said coffee maybe hospitality real estate as of late were the hottest categories I think um, at least in Montana. And don't think that necessarily holds true today. Um, speaking to innovation by startups what specific industries do you think are most ripe right now?

15:20.23
Jenni
Um, um, you know I mean I just did like a little inventory um of the industries that had. You know that were present and had gone through our accelerator program in the last five years just to see if there is really anything because I have a lot of you know data around like kind of the startups that I talked to annually and you know we see a lot of Saas companies. We see a lot of b to b here. Um. We see um a lot of like kind of business services. So like insure tech. Um, you know fintech is growing in, particularly in the Bozeman area but then we're also seeing um a lot of activity around like.

16:13.56
Jenni
I guess I would call it. Um, kind of natural resource management if you will um and I don't know you know it's some call that climate tech some call that ag tech like I guess in some ways I just kind of aggregate them together and just call it like you know we're. We're solving problems in kind of natural resource management. So that's land use and water management which you know all of these things like when you would like run the numbers and you look at like the startups that I'm talking to It's like of course these are coming out of Montana like. That makes so much sense looking at the industry that was here before and looking at like you know where our competencies are but um, we just had kind of a. Ah, wide variety. There was such a wide variety of tech that it was. It wasn't super obvious kind of like what the leading industries were and ah now we think that our ecosystem is evolving um and I think we are seeing kind of some some areas of. Specialization if you will.

17:14.50
James
Yeah, for sure I find it interesting that you speak out to climate type because I've I've also seen that growing and it's it's wild to see it emerge in Montana as well. You know we're a place fraught with at least in the dry times. Not. Not this year specifically but wildfires and natural resource management issues. So I think it's really interesting that startups could be innovating in that space. Yeah.

17:39.39
Jenni
Who.

17:47.35
Jenni
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well I mean it's ah it's it speaks to the you know things that always get me out of bed in the morning which is like I I believe that um that humans can innovate ourselves out of. Problems and so I am excited for the you know potential of but you know different kind of solutions that we're seeing coming out of the state.

18:17.91
James
So I want to Zoom out from Montana just a little bit and talk a little bit about the ah the tech industry as a whole I would call it in a weird state right now. Um I think there are a few things happening.

18:35.94
James
At least from a global perspective in that Ai is changing product roadmaps for a lot of people. Um, large companies medium-sized companies are laying off a lot of people I want to know what your overall take is.

19:06.87
Jenni
Um, I mean in some ways I don't even consider tech to be an industry anymore. I Guess I'd start there because it's like at the end of the day like tech is so ubiquitous in every industry that like it's sometimes when I talk about like fintech and insure tech I'm like. Let's just call it like you know finance startups and church sortups like like ever like you can't really get a business off the ground and have it be scalable without some sort of underlying broad Technology. So Um I Guess in my sense like to talk about tech.

19:58.70
Jenni
Yeah, know, no I mean I guess that let's that's just that's just me dodging because I don't have a great answer. Um, there's a lot smarter minds that are thinking about tech layoffs and the the the the state of technology. Um. And you know that are speaking to this significantly more more thoughtfully than I could um I guess I do have like a very Montana -centric lens so I will say. What I see in montana and some of the big tech layoffs that even are affecting. You know it's affecting montana -based companies and it's also infecting affecting montana -based employees that maybe moved here during the pandemic and who um, you know are are trying to find. Different ways in which to stay in montana so I think that what is happening with some of these layoffs and then the other you know, kind of macro forces brought on by the pandemic is that we're seeing a. Big appetite to you know, give back to growing local ecosystems and recognizing that like the coasts no longer need to be these like you know, major sources of innovation and capital and that we can bring some of those jobs and um ideas.

22:25.25
James
I ah love it I mean from ah from a Montana standpoint um looking through the Montana lens. Do you think there could be somewhat of a second.com bust or a bust in what we would consider tech right now?

22:46.13
Jenni
Um, yes I do but I ah um, you know I think like with the. Earlier this year you know four months ago it felt as though we were seeing that you know at a failure of Silicon Valley bank and um, you know all of those all the tech layoffs it started to feel really uncertain. Um, and like you know things were. We're getting a little dicey in there. Um, now you know things have kind of backed off and we're seeing release on job reports and so it's not looking as though you know things are maybe quite as tenuous as we thought they could be um so.

23:37.35
Jenni
Where you know again going back to the fact that tech is kind of ubiquitous I think what we did see with some of those layoffs too was that you know those jobs are you know people are moving back into the workforce. Um, you know obviously faster if the job reports are so strong. So I guess um, my prediction and I really don't want to make them. Um my very uninformed prediction is that um you know a bust is probably not in the next six months

24:16.61
Jenni
And it's not going to come from Tech I guess is where I'm placing my bets.

24:19.44
James
Love it. But speaking of that a little bit so I I've heard from a lot of people not tech in general but tech at larger companies like we're talking 5000 Plus Is a dangerous place for engineers to be um through my the podcast is sort of like centered around the tech industry but also Engineering. Um, what's your thought on that. Do you agree like do you think startups are the place to be right now?

25:03.78
Jenni
Ah, rather than like a more established like mature corporate environment?

25:07.41
James
Yeah, megacorp.

25:19.51
Jenni
Ah, that's like that just is such a different question because it's like there. That's very individual for me. It's like what's your propensity to risk how fast do you like to move like in my mind like those are there's a number of different things that factor into where you should be like if you are. Very entrepreneurial and you you know you're an engineer I Don't think you're going to have a great time at a mega corporation. Um, and you know you probably would be more valued as a technical cofounder and have a fast moving super nimble startup and you're getting to make. Really interesting stuff every day. So I Guess to me? Um, but if economic security is what you're looking for. Um, yeah, So if you're looking to de-risk your career path I guess I would point you to big tech.

26:05.96
James
Ah, startup is not the place. Ah.

26:16.27
James
All right, You're an engineer. You're an engineer listening to this podcast right now you are looking for your next gig. You're slightly entrepreneurial. You're you know, not risk averse. Where would you send them? would you say work for a startup?

26:36.17
James
Work start your own or join a medium larger size business?

27:05.13
Jenni
I mean I Guess what I would recommend and this is self-serving because I'm trying to grow the ecosystem is you know? um. Give back some of your time you know it's like you and may like basically Hedge Hedge re bets like go to work for somewhere safe and you know recognize that it is going to be kind of worrying but then give back to the local ecosystem because that's where.

27:35.23
Jenni
You know we see there's a ah, pretty significant shortage of you know, engineering talent and you know somebody would be willing to to Donate. You know some time to work on special projects that are local um to help out these startups so that they can at least like. You know, kind of have a better understanding of how to wireframe out their idea. For example, um, you know, maybe we could get places we could get a little bit further faster and so you could you know it's kind of the best of both worlds right? where you're like. Bringing home a steady paycheck but yet you are able to get some exposure to what it may look like in working for a startup moving a little bit faster and having a little bit more of an impact on a product launch.

28:24.57
James
Yeah I love that so moonlight in moonlighting as a ah startup ah ish sort of like giving that great like local ah local startup scene right.

28:39.70
Jenni
Yeah, that's my suggestion.

28:41.50
James
I think it's a great suggestion. It's funny you bring that up I mean I've talked to some friends of mine recently and they're like I'm just bored at my job I'm like well do you have a startup idea? Do you want to come to help me with mine?

28:57.34
Jenni
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely more like co-founder batching events you know because I mean I think so often I don't know it'd be fun to do like a speed dating. You know if.

29:00.90
James
Want to moonlight as long as you check your contract right? ah.

29:16.59
Jenni
Event where it's like you know the strategic operators are recruiting for technical cofounders. Um, because I mean I just talked to a guy the other day that was like you know I realized that without having a technical co-founder that I was you know that my startup wasn't going to go anywhere and I couldn't find anybody and like I hear that.

29:37.92
James
I imagine something like that already exists right? like some sort of online startup speed dating thing.

29:45.67
Jenni
Yeah, yeah, there definitely are some um options for that I think angel list has ah co-founder matching I think um, tech stars me too. Um, for me I Guess. If you're working remotely I'm a raging extrovert and so I um need some in-person interaction and so and I need to feel like I'm part of a team and you know this like one-dimensional screen stuff doesn't do it for me so you know I. It would be a little bit more rewarding to find somebody locally so you know therefore I guess I I recommend that you seek Out. You know an organization like mine in your own community and maybe try to find locals because like I said where you know there's a lot of. Innovation moving off the coast right now and you know we need your engineering talent if you want to give back and your bored at your job. Um, we could certainly pair you up with some folks in your your backyard that could use the help and I mean if you're looking for like a search term of you know what? I. But I do um there is like a whole like a whole world out there of like ecosystem building organizations. They're called like entrepreneurial support organizations. Um, so there is ah there is probably 1 in your community.

31:12.46
James
Yeah, yeah, no bill. Ah this relates back you did mention before the podcast. Um that there were ways people could get involved with early stage Montana I think you said in your words like if they had something to offer startups. Ah.

31:26.56
Jenni
Um, yeah, and.

31:30.36
James
A what do you mean by that and b how do people get in touch. How do people offer support and is it limited only to Montana and.

31:41.65
Jenni
Ah so many questions that are great questions. So um I think the the best way right now to get involved is to um, come to Bozeman in November we're putting on. A conference on November second and third that is honestly built to be a cat like ecosystem catalyst for Montana and building the you know technology companies and so we're trying to bring together founders tech leaders. Um, service providers enthusiasts. Um to you know, be inspired, learn more about what's happening here locally. Ah, but then you know, really commit to different ways in which you know, um, all attendees can.

32:35.73
Jenni
And want to get involved and give back to grow the local startup community and that can be. You know there's a million different ways to give back. You know it can be you know, volunteering to be a technical co-founder for a startup that could use you. It could be um. You know if you're an investor or curious about you know, getting involved in angel investing kind of making a pledge to invest in local companies. It could be um, you know if you have some specialty knowledge of an industry and you're willing to. Sit down with startups and give them. You know an hour of your time to talk through. You know, kind of what bind behavior looks like in that industry. You know that's super helpful. Um, there's ah, there's a myriad of different ways that you can get involved and that startups could use your help and you know we're. We're really trying to build this event where afterwards there is a lot of spinoff activity that is kind of community led because obviously like I you know. 1 organization cannot be kind of the the lynchpin one organization with 1 person as an employee cannot be the yeah the you know sole focus but we are trying to create kind of spinoff activities so that you know the communities with shared interests and and.

34:03.60
Jenni
Ways in which that they found at the conference that they can work together. They can continue to meet and we want to enable all of those kind of continuing activities. So you know maybe somebody raises their hand and says like you know billings is really short on. You know hackathon events and I'm willing to put on one a month or a year or whatever that may be you know, maybe that's a spinoff activity but you know and then early stage Montana can enable by kind of. Helping you with a mailing list of people in the billings area that may be interested in attending type thing where it's like you know we're working together and building on some of that momentum so and with that said to answer your question about people outside of Monti Andana getting involved. Absolutely you can certainly get involved. Um I've got some hotel rooms on hold if you care to travel to thoseman in November um, you know I'm gonna. Building some sort of digital community I don't know exactly what that's going to look like but you know certainly we have supporters and people that are passionate about helping Montana -based technology startups from all over the world. Um, and so I am working on kind of building out that network and.

35:24.82
Jenni
Trying to find ways in which we can connect people that do want to give back. You know the only the only thing that is required is that you're you know you're willing and able to pitch in and that you're passionate about supporting local tech startups.

35:39.20
James
There you go you heard it So how how can people get in touch with you.

35:43.70
Jenni
Finishing.

35:48.20
Jenni
Ah, so we have a website welcome to sign up for our mailing list I don't have newsletter even I only send things out and there's like pressing relevant information. Generally an event that we're putting on. Um. So you know, sign up for our our listserv on our website the other way that I communicate is through Linkedin. That's kind of our other community that we keep pretty active so those are the 2 ways to get involved and then if you. If you prefer to communicate in person like I said November second and third in Bozeman Montana at the kington armory.

36:23.17
James
It.

36:31.30
James
Right? Awesome! Ah I want to switch gears over to building startups. So I know a lot of people listening probably have had an idea at some point. Um I'll sort of like be.

36:39.10
Jenni
Um, fifth.

36:46.62
James
That person for you on this podcast right now and you can ask Jenni all these questions that you had about building a startup. So I'm gonna take a guess at what they're asking. Ah um so I have an idea. Um I'm now a founder at an early stage startup.

36:51.21
Jenni
Okay.

37:06.29
James
Um, what advice are you giving me Jenni?

37:11.17
Jenni
Ah, that's it. That's all you're giving me is I'm a founder and I read an early-stage company? Ah I um I would say.

37:11.19
James
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

37:28.53
Jenni
Wow, That's ah, that's really general but I would say have a ton of conversations. Um and stay curious and don't be too. Don't dive into the solution too quickly. Ah, be crystal queer on the problem that you're solving and make sure that you understand that that really truly is a problem that you know the pain point is such. It is so painful that there is a large population of people that are willing to spend money too. Alleviate that pain. Um, and yeah, so ask you know a lot of questions at the beginning and find all the support and you know just ah, just stay stay dedicated stay stay. Scrupulous in um, just kind of the work that you're doing and see if there's something there. Follow followed thread and see where it'll take you and don't be afraid to dream big and you know maybe even like. Begin with the end in mind sometimes you know once you've gotten beyond. Um, the fact that you've got a solution to a pretty significant problem Once you have that and you know you're onto something. Um.

39:01.39
Jenni
the sky's the limit you know don't limit yourself. Um because at the end of the day, that is 1 thing that we see particularly in Montana is we actually have a very humble founder population here and you know they have a tendency to.

39:16.20
James
Um, yeah.

39:20.99
Jenni
Go after things that they think are attainable. Um, and sometimes that's really limiting. You know sometimes that means that's that you're gonna get you're gonna get beat by the competition because you're not, you're not dreaming big enough. So those are my 2 areas of advice.

39:37.79
James
I Love it I think it's sound advice. Um, let's talk a little bit about funding and specifically funding at an early stage. Um, so bootstrap in or venture Capital What are some of the downsides/upsides of both?

39:57.80
Jenni
Um, ah I mean it's just I think that people need to think of venture capital as a tool and as a means to an end and it's just a. Different business model. But at the end of the day. Um, you know and outside funding could just kind of help you move a little bit further a little bit faster when your model requires that you do move really fast. Um, and sometimes that is how you compete in in technology startups is like you move faster should fast Movers. There's a reason why that's a ubiquitous term. Um, so that's the upside of Venture Capital Um, obviously the the. Downsides are you know there's no more you you are. It's a different game. You're playing in what's you take on such venture Capital had um. You're a formal entity now and there's ah um, there's some consequences that come with that. Um, and you know you just need to make sure that you're you know when you do.

41:18.11
Jenni
Seek out venture capital that it's for the right reasons for your business and that you've found Vested Partners who are going to be additive to your organization and that's not just about seeking Money. So at the end of the day. What we always Advise startups is like. You may or may not need outside funding but make sure that you're aware of how to get it because you don't want to be asking for money when you're about to run out so make sure that you're planning ahead. Make sure that you're.

41:45.98
James
Right.

41:52.10
Jenni
You know that you understand your options that you understand how to use. Um vcu a vc or angel funding as a tool. Um, and that yeah if you know you're at your you know, local, friendly venture capitalist or angel and they're not. Scary as as sometimes they are made out to be Nora's evil is sometimes they are made out to be but you know you want to you want to be educated on all of it. It's it's money with strings attached at the end of the day. Um, and then bootstrapping you know. There's a lot to be said for bootstrapping it it you know? Um I think that bootstrap as long as you possibly can. Um and there's there's nothing wrong with having 100 % equity in your own company that sounds pretty fantastic. Um. And if you're onto something that will support it if that's your business plan and you know your model aligns with it. Ah, do that keep making money. Yeah.

42:56.33
James
Ah, the name in the game. Ah so speaking to to venture capital and trading equity for Capital um at an early stage. What are some of the things like I don't know how much you could talk specifically to this. But.

43:01.85
Jenni
So.

43:13.97
James
What are some of the deals that you've seen or what in your mind is like a fair, a fair formula for a founder to go by when considering venture capital. So.

43:26.37
Jenni
Oh that's I cannot answer that question and I don't think anybody really can. It's too dependent on too many you know different factors. You need a little bit more information I would say um.

43:39.68
Jenni
I Mean in terms of like exchanging equity for you know funding, you know, just make sure that you have gotten as far as you can without outside money because that's going to increase the valuation of your company and you won't have to give as much away so you know, um. Do whatever you can to to to generate value and to you know we always talk about it as like de-risking the company like make sure that you have you know it might not be revenue but make sure that you have a lot. Of indicators to support that you have a super viable company and that it's run incredibly well and efficiently and that you know you can tell the story of you know profitability potential profitability pretty well um, and then.

44:32.25
Jenni
Then hopefully you you come to a point a negotiation point where you you know have ah a pretty strong story.

44:38.30
James
Obviously they're looking for ah revenue right? and they're looking for return on investment. Are there. Other pieces that they're looking for.. Maybe it's it's too ah broad to ask that. But ah, what are some things that you've seen investors looking for outside of just ah roi.

45:28.49
Jenni
I mean there's a ah growing investor population. You know, particularly like in the very early stages of angel investors. You know that are looking for. You know all of the Esg Metrics you know they are then they they invest. Specifically around those those numbers so they are looking to you know invest in things that they see as you know providing a societal benefit. So we're seeing more and more of that you know particularly at the individual level. Once you get to you know? Ah, you know an angel syndicate group there that isn't you know that factor isn't as strong. But um, you know we're seeing certainly seeing more and more of that. Um, you know I think that.

46:24.40
Jenni
Team strength is often underestimated, um by founders. But and maybe almost overestimated by investors because at the end of the day they they are evaluating um an investment on. Team and honestly likeability and trust is ah it it factors in significantly more than any of us like to believe we all like to think that we're you know, very data-driven humans that you know are only making the most. Savvy business decisions. But at the end of the day. There's a human component involved in any business decision. So keep that in mind as well.

47:19.71
James
That shoehorns into a question I wanted to ask you about teams. Say you are a founder. Um, or maybe even you're just a cofounder with somebody else. What advice can you give to those founders cofounders when you're building a team at an early stage startup?

47:56.75
Jenni
Um, I mean this is not my you know this is not original Jenni's thoughts but it's certainly something that I've heard over and over again and something that's stuck with me. Is um, you know, evaluate your co-founder like and think about that person. Um and make that decision. As cautiously as you select a life partner because you are going to be married to that person in 1 former fashion for a really long time and you know your your ability to make decisions. Together and kind of offset when another's strengths and weaknesses are pretty vital to the the ongoing operations of the business. You know the whole drucker quote "Culture eats strategy for breakfast." That really rings true. Um I think and we see that a lot in you know, very early decisions of businesses. Um, so I guess that's how I would think about it I also be you know, very real about your own skills and abilities and you know. Try to identify someone who complements your own skill sets and and be pretty clear about you know who's going to do what at the early stages of the business. You know when you listen to a pitch and it's not super clear like who this. Strategic operator is and who the technical person is and the lines of roles and responsibility are not clearly delineated that is a that comes across pretty apparently very early and it's ah you know it's certainly a risk factor. So um, all of those things. I guess are things I think about.

50:08.38
James
Ah, so this is like somewhat underrelateded but a question that's been ah, burning on my mind. Um ever since you know, ah you talked a little bit about like some of the companies that. Went through your pipeline. They got a lot Bigger. You've seen this happen. Um, so the question is burning on my mind and I've heard a lot of people talk about it that founders make terrible ceos I Want to know does that resonate with you?

50:45.13
Jenni
Ah, um, I honestly I don't get involved first of all in the day-to-day operations of the business like beyond you know, kind of getting them to a point where they can scale and be successful. So. Clearly the companies that I talk about as success stories I can't imagine that that is actually the you know that the founders are terrible ceos because I think that you know the strongest data point we have is the you know ongoing success of the company so far. Those guys are doing great. So I don't have that. Um. Experience I haven't seen that um, certainly that is a ah, pretty common thought and we you know you hear the stories all day long. Um.

51:37.92
Jenni
And there are just you know there's it's a skill set right? like it. It is it is a different person that starts a company and grows it to a hundred employees than the person that takes a company at a hundred employees and grows it to 500 employees or a thousand.

51:55.15
James
For sure.

51:57.46
Jenni
Whatever and to be able to bridge those gaps takes a very special person. It's not to say that it's impossible but it is you know those are really challenging changes to go through as a founder and as an you know, ah ongoing Ceo.

52:14.44
James
Got it. Yeah, so all right I think we're ah I think we're almost out of time. Um, so I do have one last question to wrap up - I'm a a foodie at heart. I don't know if you are but I hope you are because the question I'm about to ask you requires a little bit of food knowledge. If Montana had a single dish, what would it be known for?

52:48.40
Jenni
Um, ribeye.

52:49.10
James
Yes! Correct answer, correct answer - 100 points!

52:57.93
Jenni
Ah, um, thank you, Okay, that was a lot of pressure there.

53:08.62
James
Well thank you so much for your time ah anything that we haven't touched on anything that you want to mention shout out?

53:18.30
Jenni
Um, no, you gave me a chance to talk about you know to invite people to our event in November and um, other than that I would just say keep on building and stay curious.

53:32.87
James
Keep on building and stay curious and visit early stage Montana ah I'll have the web address in the description of the podcast. And thank you again for joining me Jenni.

53:45.80
Jenni
Thank you, It was a pleasure. So thanks for doing this podcast I appreciate it.

53:49.15
James
Yeah, absolutely.